Homemaker Portrait | Carrie Sullivan

Carrie Sullivan has been keeping a home for over 20 years through changing seasons of motherhood, working outside the home, full-time homemaking, grief and growing faith. Now, in her 50’s, with kids nearing launch-time, Carrie has come to view homemaking as a meaningful vocation and true calling from God. 

We cover all the usual territory of homemaking strengths, weaknesses, expectations, hospitality, and more. 

And as a little bonus, I have some historical homemaking hints for you from a fun early 20th century etiquette guide, Don'ts for Wives.

SHOW NOTES

All resources mentioned in this episode, including Carrie's signature dish recipe are on the blog. Click the link below or go to theartofhomepodcast.com/blog and search "Carrie Sullivan".

https://www.theartofhomepodcast.com/post/building-cathedrals-to-the-glory-of-god-a-homemaker-portrait-of-carrie-sullivan

Connect with Carrie on IG @curatingaliterarylife

HHH Segment

Ebbutt, Blanche, Don'ts for Husbands, Don'ts for Wives. London: A. & C. Black, 1913

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello, homemakers, and welcome to the Art of Home podcast, where we are exploring how homemakers cultivate a place to belong. I'm your host, Alison Weeks. I'm a wife and mom of Granny, and I have been practicing the Art of Home since 1992. Welcome to all of you listeners. Whether you are brand new here or you have been around for all five years, or somewhere in between, I am honored that you are trusting me with some of your very valuable time today. We are in week two of our spring season, and I hope that you are finding valuable insight and inspiration from all of this content. I would love to hear from you about how the show has impacted your homemaking. Send me a text or leave me a voice message using the link in the description box. It's right at the top, just below the episode cover art. And in case you missed last week's homemaker portrait, you may not know that I can now text you back a short reply. So let's chat. Today I have a brand new homemaker portrait of Carrie Sullivan. She has been keeping a home for over 20 years through changing seasons of motherhood, working outside the home, full-time homemaking, grief, and growing faith. Now in her 50s, with kids nearing launch time, Carrie has come to view homemaking as a meaningful vocation and true calling from God. We cover all the usual territory of homemaking strengths, weaknesses, expectations, hospitality, and more. And as a little bonus, I have some historical homemaking hints for you today. You'll hear those about halfway through the interview. I will be back at the end with some closing thoughts, reminders, and the emoji code for this episode. Whatever you are applying your hands to as you listen, I know you will enjoy Carrie's story of home. Welcome to the Art of Home. I am here for an all-new homemaker portrait with homemaker Carrie Sullivan, who we've decided is straddling the line between in the trenches and seasoned because she's been homemaking for over two decades, but still has kids at home. And we're going to hear all about her experience. But before we get into your background, Carrie, why don't you just say hey to the audience and tell us a little bit about who you are today?

unknown 2:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Thank you, Allison. Um, I'll first thanks for uh selecting me. It was a bit of a shock, to be honest. I kind of threw my name out into the wind, and then I had um sort of just put it in the back of my mind. And then on one of your podcasts, you mentioned that you had um sent out emails to everyone whether they were, you know, selected or not for this season. And I was like, oh, I don't think I saw one. So I went into my email and I had missed it. And it's kind of one of those things where I went to click on the link and I was like, you know, waiting for it to say, well, thank you so much for applying. But you know, we aren't unable at this time to, you know. And when it said yes, I like read it three times, I was like, Ryan, my husband, I was like, you have to hear you like, guess what I did? And it was it was really exciting in my, you know, that's awesome. My middle, my middle-aged life that can sometimes get a little, you know, like Groundhog's Day. It was something exciting in the cold of winter to read. So um, so my name is Carrie Sullivan, and I live in um kind of, I guess, a mid-sized town in Nebraska, 26,000 for some people. That's probably a small town, but um, and I have been, I thought of this. I guess I've been a homemaker. I said for 21 years because that's how long I've been married, but one of your last um homemaker portraits was with um a single gal. And it kind of got me thinking about how I guess I really defined homemaker um as, you know, married and having children. And I that kind of opened my eyes that no, like many people are making a home, whether or not you were called to marriage or not. So I I suppose technically it did start when I, because I didn't get married like right out of school or anything. So it did, you know, I had some single years of homemaking, but um, I don't think I probably really considered myself in that role until I did get married. So um 21 years ago, I got married to my husband Ryan, and um we met. Well, it's kind of a funny story. We were both getting our masters. We'd uh come back. I had moved back here. I had been a uh college volleyball coach straight out of my alma mater, where I had played volleyball, and um sort of fell into that and then decided that wasn't that had really never been my life dream. So um moved to Kansas City randomly for a year where my best friend lived, and then was like, okay, this isn't for me. I gotta figure out what I want to do with my life here. So I moved back to where my mom lived in Hastings and got my master's in education. And while I was there, one of my professors um calls me up one day and says, Hey, are you seeing anyone? And my first feeling was dread because I thought, oh no, she has a son or something, and she, you know, she wants to set me up. And like, but I was just like, oh no. And she said, Well, I have this other master's student that I think would be per, you know, just there's something about you. I think you guys would be perfect. Well, nothing really came of that. But then down the road, when I, you know, you know, met my husband through actually my cousin introduced us, um, I found out that was actually him that she was talking about. Oh, okay. So she kind of had like, I don't know if you know, God placed it on her heart or what, that maybe we would work together, but we met on our own. So um, we got married after dating for nine months, and um, we're then engaged for a year and both got our masters and ended up moving um away to a bigger uh metro area. And I was a high school volleyball coach and teacher, and he was a coach and teacher as well at a different school. And then after about three years, um, we got pregnant with our daughter, and I sort of always knew in my heart that I wanted to stay at home. I remember driving past a daycare on my way to school and seeing uh moms and dads dropping off babies, and I would get like tears in my eyes, you know, at the thought of myself doing that. And um, so yeah, we decided I was gonna stay home, which made zero financial sense at the time because we were both teachers. Um, my husband did end up switching careers to make that more feasible. And then after three years um in, we were actually in Omaha, Nebraska, we moved back here to um Hastings, which is my husband's hometown and where his parents are, and my mom lived. And yeah, we've been here ever since. So our kiddos, and um in that time we had another child, a son. So I now have an eight, an 18-year-old daughter who's going to graduate high school here in May, and then a 15-year-old son who's a freshman, and they attend the um Catholic school that my husband went to, that his mom went to. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

So 12th grader and a and a ninth grader?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Okay. Boy and a girl. Okay, a boy and a girl. Okay, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Um, so I originally was teaching and then I chose to stay home. Um once my kiddos hit middle school and high school, so sixth and ninth grader, I thought, gosh, you know, they're getting older. Maybe it's time for me to. I I had dabbled in some like very part-time things that were flexible, that you know, I could still primarily be with my kids. I mean, maybe 10 hours a week. Um, but I just there was nothing I really ever loved as much as just working with kids and being in the classroom. Sure. So I I long-term subbed actually for my son's class one year. And then they asked me to come on like full-time. So I taught for two years. And then at that time, I, you know what, when you're have a, I guess they would have been what, a seventh, seventh grader and maybe a tenth grader, you can't really say, well, I'm gonna stay home. Just felt weird. So people actually started saying I was retiring. And I thought, okay. Also, I've been back to work for two years. So I don't know if retiring is a fair term. But so I came back home because um, yeah, what I had sort of figured out was that while anybody that has teenagers knows that you kind of hit the ground running with teenagers as soon as school gets out until their 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock when they're going to bed. I mean, that's and so I just sort of felt like I loved my job, I loved teaching, but you know, it doesn't have a lot of flexibility. I'd be there all day and then I'd be off to a sporting event. Um, my kids are both very active, like three sport athletes. So I was just going to a sporting event and just it felt like a hamster will that I just yeah, I didn't want to be on. So fortunately, we had kind of set up our life prior to living off of one income. So I I stepped away again. So back at home.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

You've been home now for how many years since that since that decision?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Is this my third? This will be like the school year was my third. Your third year. So yeah, okay. I sub, I substitute teach sometimes at our Catholic school. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

So how how are you uh how did you make the adjustment coming home after, you know? Um was it was it an okay adjustment or was it difficult for you?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

It was difficult because I was, I think in what in one way it made me appreciate what maybe I had taken for granted, you know, the being in control of my time or and um you know, I think since I had I had done that for so long that it just uh I didn't really remember know any different in my motherhood. I'd always stayed home. But so it made me appreciate it. But I was also now in a new stage of life with you know, having two older kids. And a lot of the ways that, you know, the things you're doing with younger kids, the you know, the play dates and mom kind of orchestrating things more was not happening. So um I I realized that I now had a little more time to kind of focus on like me. And um, you know, yeah, it just it just switched in that I was kind of like now who am I? I mean, I'm mom still. Right. But yeah, because I know that like once my kids get home, like you know, I'm fully in as being mom and obviously wife, that um, what do I do to fill my own cup? And I think that that's probably been um sometimes hindsight, you know, they say is 2020. And I look at it and I really think like in my own faith journey, I see my relationship with God and my faith has grown largely since then, just because I mean I've always had faith, but um, it's kind of become more of a priority and I've had a little bit more time to focus on it. And sure, um, yeah, just some relationships with some godly friends that I've made. And yeah. So okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Well, that's that's really good. So um you've already kind of alluded to this. Like, would you would you say then that your homemaking really started in earnest when you married Ryan?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

There's just so many stages. Like, I think one of the beautiful things is um I just turned 50 this year.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Um I had my my f I didn't have my first child until I was 32 and then 35. So I'm kind of like I have a couple of friends that already have grandchildren, you know. So I'm kind of um, but then I have friends that have I have a friend that just had a baby, you know, so it's kind of all over the place. But yes, I mean, in practicality, my homemaking did start then, but I feel like my view of it and how I have embraced it has just really shifted. And that is one of the beautiful things I feel about getting older is just your perspective and just yeah, I I and life experiences and hardships and things that I've been through have just kind of made me um now. I don't want to come across like every day I embrace every moment, and I'm just always living in the I do not do that, but I just I see really see now homemaking as a vocation, yes, and a calling from God. And I don't, I can't say that that's how I looked at it. Originally it was more practical, like I have to make food, I have to wash dishes, I have to do laundry. Like it was a to-do list. And now it feels like a ministry, I guess, to me. So it's definitely shifted.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yeah, that's that's a really good way to look at it. And I can see how um you can sort of divide your experience into two different lanes, you know, the those those early years, and then you went to work for a while and then coming back in a much different season. Like you've like you said, with teenagers, it's a whole different thing. Um, and so that's a really unique perspective that you have. And and that's I really thank you for sharing like what you've learned from that because that's very impactful. Um, I'm wondering when you did start homemaking um as a newbie, if you will, as a younger lady. Oh, and by the way, welcome to the 50 club.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

I'm I'll be 53 this year. So uh fellow Gen Xers Unite. So when you first started, did you have any skills? Did you come with any sort of skills?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Um, yeah, I would say that probably my my gift, if you will, was just making a really like cozy and aesthetically pleasing home. Um I grew up with a mom that was a uh kind of a perfectionist in that way and just really did make a beautiful home. Um and, you know, she she kind of was the complete package, which I can't say that I was because she did the canning and the sewing and that she, you know, worked different amounts of time as a nurse. And she um just had a way of, you know, before Pinterest and all that, of making things special and the birthday parties were fun and were a theme and just a lot of those kinds of things. Um, I can't say that necessarily um I learned I, you know, the the canning and the those kinds of things and the sewing. Um also, which I see a trait I also get from her, maybe you know, the patience part of teaching children to do those things was a little lacking. So I didn't necessarily like I saw her doing them, but I didn't necessarily learn them from her, like the practicality of the skill. Um, but aesthetically, I love making like a cozy and aesthetically pleasing home. So I think that's something. Um, actually, I laugh when I look back at pictures about when I just had my daughter, I was like, oh my gosh, I had this like little tree. It was like a holiday tree, if you will. So I changed it for St. Patty's Day and Easter. And you know, and then when I have my second child, I tried to do that and all of a sudden it would be July and I still had the Easter tree, you know, and I was like, I can't, I can't do this. But I I almost laugh at how, you know, I could like how clean and neat my house looked with one versus two. Versus two. Yeah. Yeah. So on that side, that was kind of, I would say that's my gift. Um on the other side, something I'm like, I am 50 years old, and why is meal planning so hard for me still? Like I just it's just it's you know, it's like you nail it one day, but then it's like, guess what? They why do they keep eating? They want to eat again. They want to eat it again, and then it's like, oh, so I just I feel like every day my husband and I are like, so what's for dinner? So you know, it's just I try to plan ahead, but also with the chaos of our schedule and sports schedules and never, you know, where there's a lot of like preparing meals for people to eat at different times the run and stuff. Yeah. Um, so I that's still it really is a challenge for me. And even like I said, if I do it well one week, then it's like, guess what? It's a new week and new new meals need to be eaten.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

And so yes, I yeah, just cooking for teenagers in general is challenging. And then, you know, adding on the layer of multiple sports schedules and then adding on the layer of, you know, plan well, okay. So let me back up. I think planning mineral minerals, planning meals in general and having like a good meal plan that is a skill that has to be learned and it's a challenge. And then you add all those other layers that you're dealing with, that's a triple challenge. So my heart goes out to you. It gets so much easier when they move out and you're only cooking for two. And then, and then teen boys, like the appetite that has common with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

I never no, I just don't know how to feed him enough calories.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

We did a lot, we did a lot of smoothies.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah, we do. I do. I'm like, what can I add into this thing I'm making to make it like more calorie dense calorie dense?

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, yeah. I had I had um my youngest was a cross country runner, and so I mean, gosh, that boy, he'd just keep throwing food into him and he just would burn right through it because he would be running all the time. So I feel your pain, definitely. Okay, so we've talked about your skill set, and you just mentioned what I sounds to me like your strength and your weaknesses. You said you you were good at making a cozy home initially and and still are, and your weakness is um meal plans, even at 50. So would you say those are your primary strengths and weaknesses, homemaker, or do you have anything else?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Um yeah, I would say also a weakness that I struggle with constantly in all areas is I've uh I borrowed this phrase somewhere, but I have um paralysis by analysis. Yes, I am I never realized it felt like procrastination on my part, but I didn't realize it was actually perfectionism. Um, and sometimes I can just spend so much time, you know, like I mean, picking out a coffee table, for example. I will spend months like researching and looking at pictures and try, you know, and it's just um then I've adopted another, another saying that's um that perfect is the enemy of done. And sometimes I've realized, gosh, you know what? Like, I think the internet has made it hard for everyone because you just have so many resources at your fingertips where it's you know, when I was growing up, well, if we need a new piece of furniture, there was probably one local store to go to, you went, you pick something out, and that was it. Yeah. Um, so that is probably a weakness I have that I I do feel like now that I'm aware of it, it's like, okay, there's a million right way, right ways to do this. Just sure, just get it done. Just get it done. Yeah. So that would be probably a weakness of mine. Um, just not striving for for us, there's not, there's no one perfect way to do anything. Um, I would say another strength that probably goes along with creating kind of like an aesthetic, you know, like a cozy and aesthetic home is just um hospitality. I really have a heart for it. Like I love to invite people into our home. Um, we re we moved recently, this in August, and um have a little bit more space now where I feel um, which one I don't want anyone to ever feel like your home does not have to be, you know, huge and beautiful and whatever to have people over. But sometimes the logistics of space is an issue. Um so it's been nice that I've just felt like I had the ability. I, you know, hosted a um advent study in my home and oh nice. Yeah, having team meals for my kids, and that's just been like a blessing. And I do kind of look for opportunities to welcome people into our home and um yeah, and just to kind of use that as a way to like serve others.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

So that's great. Those are really good. What um who or what, sometimes it's a what, would you say um has had a big influence on your homemaking?

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah, um, I would say, you know, initially my mom, because that was my first kind of exposure um to homemaking. And just I don't know how I look back, I'm like, how did you do so many things? She had a huge garden. She, like I said, she was a sewer, she made all our costumes, she made clothes, she made, she canned. Um, she did work part-time, full-time as a nurse. She just got a lot done. Um so that was probably my first um exposure. And um, I've been reflecting on that a lot lately. I lost my mom in April, so she's sorry, yeah, unexpectedly. So just, you know, that brings with it a lot of kind of reflecting and and looking back on um, you know, while like we our parents is our like our closest connection. We also knowing this being a mom, we also can sometimes that's who we give the most grief to because we do feel comfortable and yes. So it kind of makes you, you know, a different appreciation once they're they're no longer here. Um, another one would be my aunt Elda. She is um my dad's oldest sister. She's gonna be 90 this summer. And whenever I say that to people, I say, but think 70, because that is more how I mean her spirit and her activity level, and she's still um, she lives in a retirement community, but she's still completely independent. And she is just, she was a former um, I guess when it was home, I don't know, family consumer science teacher, but former homec teacher, and she's just always had the gift of hospitality. I said joke, I was like, no matter when you showed up at Ann Elda's house, she would just like have like a cake. She just happened to have a cake baked and um like before there was charcuterie boards, you know, she had a charcuterie board out for you and just um just always really created this sense of home, which has also been um not I feel like I'm I don't want to make this too sad of a thing. I also had lost my dad, it's been almost eight years now, unexpectedly. And um, my parents were divorced. So I had a stepmom. And um so when my dad passed away unexpectedly, and we went to um, he lived in a town about an hour and a half from here in Lincoln. Uh, when we went, when we got the call and we went there, his home was with he and my stepmom lived, and it was kind of like there wasn't a home base to go to, you know, because it wasn't my it wasn't my biological parents that were still married. So my aunt lived in Lincoln. So that kind of became Um, there was about a week between um when my dad passed away and the funeral and her house became home base. Like my siblings we'd gather there, my cousins came. Um, so she just kind of provided, yeah. Um, you know, while going through her own, obviously, grief because they were they were very close, and that was her last remaining sibling. And she being the oldest had lost, you know, lost her younger siblings, her younger brothers. And um, yeah, so she's just gave us that that sense of home that we needed. And then I guess I would say most recently, um, just um my I guess my faith has been um, and you know, God's word has been kind of my role model in how should I be, you know, where should my eyes be? Where should my heart be? Like, where should my focus be on this motherhood journey? And realizing again, it's not just checklists and house maintenance. It's really like trying to, you know, shepherd my children into eternity and just what am I, you know, what am I creating here for them and kind of giving them those roots as they head off into the world and kind of take more responsibility for that journey of their own.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Yes, absolutely. I love the way you put that shepherding your children into eternity. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I'm sure I heard it. I'm sure I heard it somewhere. Well, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

I hadn't heard it before, so that's great. Um, yeah, because the people are the point. I just I did another interview this morning and we talked, we said that several times in the interview. Um, the people are the point. Yeah, so that's great. Okay, let's talk a little bit about um expectations. What are some things that surprised you about homemaking? Good or bad, something you did not expect.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

Um, I would say just the day initially the the day to day of it. Just kept like we talked about food, eating. Yeah, it was just kind of groundhog day. Like, we're you're not gonna it's never done, you know. There's never that, like, well, I've completed that project, which is something about when you do work and you have a project, or even as a teacher, you had a school year and now this year is done. Yes, you wrap it up with a little bow and then move on to the next. Right. And there's not that in homemaking, it's just never like so. I think um that was kind of surprising to me. Um also, I think I have learned that I am I am not in control. You know, I I'm not God is uh ultimately in control, but also my children have their own distinct personalities and needs, and my husband and sometimes my vision of what I think things should be can be my own worst enemy. Um, and something I learned at I'm embarrassed how long it took me, was that I feel like I was always trying to create this very ideal picture, you know, and the perfect, like it would be Christmas, and we were gonna do all the things. I was gonna do the gym, you know, all the things. And then uh I was exhausted and crabby. And then finally it just struck me like, what do my kids even want to do? And so I just started asking them, you know, what's meaningful to you? What do you, you know, what do you want this to look like? What do you enjoy doing? And yeah, so I think just I I guess the biggest surprise was just realizing it's not all about me, honestly. You know, like shocker. Shocking. Um, and I do remember the moment where I looked at my daughter and this this do this seems so naive now, but and I thought, you're not a mini me, like you're your own person. You know, you just you raise your children like initially, I was just raising them like they were little extensions of me. And I mean, and they are in some, but they're also their own, you know, divinely uniquely created um soul. And so I was kind of like, and that has been one of the greatest joys, too, is watching as my kids have gotten older, like, like, how did you how did you turn out like this? Because it wasn't me, it does, it's a village and it's God, and it's just um in all the ways that they're better than I am, you know. That's just like such a blessing to see that.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

So yes, I love that. That's good. Um, okay, well, let's speak of parenting, okay. I'm gonna move ahead uh because we're talking about kids and and how they enrich and challenge our homemaking. So can you give me an example of a way that they challenged and then a way that they enriched your homemaking?

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Um, I would say, well, enriching because it is funny because I everything I'm saying, I feel like I'm talking about there was a before and an after I've used it. So I'm I'm gonna speak in the now, the now how it is. Um, is just that they enrich it because they're the heart of everything that I do. So I now make my um my like decisions and plans and things kind of based on their like soul and spirit and who they are instead of just what I want. Sure. Um and I think the neat thing I always tell people of littles about when you have little kids and you think, I don't, and and it is there's ways it's hard when they grow up, you know, those little babies. And but I say, you know, I always I think that I have enjoyed every stage more and more now. Every stage has come with challenges too. I don't want to be like it's you know, it's which is perfect, but it's just I feel like I, yes, I loved having babies, but just seeing them grow into who God made them to be and just their unique personalities and being able to have almost now adult conversations with them and see their views on the world and honestly being humbled by them at times when you know they'll call me out on things, or you know, just being so proud of them for decisions that they make. And yeah, it's just it's been neat seeing them grow into um just you know, their own, their own, their own people. Um, challenges being that they have their own unique interests and opinions and um struggles. And it's it can be hard to not like sometimes I'll hear one of my kids um, and I think maybe it's more more so with a daughter than a son, just by the base of our, you know, yeah, the the feminine versus the masculine, um and how we, you know, she probably shares more and um is maybe a bit more emotional, but like hearing my daughter speak words of things that I'm actually struggling with at the time, or you know, and it's just like how are we like I'm 50 and you're 18 and we're dealing with the same, um, and not absorbing that, you know, like being a guide for them and listening, but not, you know, just trying to instantly fix it, or which I definitely struggle with. I mean, I definitely like have shut shut my children down before by trying to fix it. I know that. Um, but just yeah, trying not to become so enmeshed in it that because also, especially I feel like when they were younger, you know, they would come home one day and they were so upset with a certain friend, and all day I'd spend just so worried and fretting over it, and then they'd come home and then they're best friends again. I was like, I spent all day like distraught over this situation, and you know, and now you're over it. So it's like, okay. So yeah, just not letting myself get too enmeshed in their humanity, you know, humanity and being more of a like a sounding board, but not letting it, I guess, ruin my day and knowing I uh again, it's a control issue. I can't control it. It's between them and God. And I can, I can guide, I can give an example, I can be a sounding board, but you know, ultimately it's their experience. And I just get to have a front row seat for it.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Oh my goodness. Thank you for saying that. Um, because it is very common. That was my experience um with teenagers. I love the example of the five-year-old that comes home and her, you know, BFF is being mean to her. And so you're worried about it all the next day, and then they come back and they're BFFs again. And it's really not that much different in high school.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

There are things I think it's so important to remember, especially with teenagers, they're very hormonal. I'm not making light of like real the the realness of the problem for them in that moment. But the what you just said about not taking on the mantle of their drama upon yourself, it's so important because you're that's not yours to take, you know, it's it's your job to point them to Christ, to point them to truth, to be like you said, be a sounding board, ask questions, like really try to understand where they're coming from. But it is so hard. I am I agree with you, it is so difficult to not enter into that drama fully and like let it just suck you into the whole of being, you know, consumed by it and worried about them the whole next day or week or whatever until that thing is resolved. Because with teenagers, they're so they swing so quickly from one thing to the next. And um yeah, you just gotta kind of roll with the punches and not not let it suck you in. So thank you for saying that.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

Well, it it makes me think of another um thing along those lines is that also being a teacher, especially and seeing a lot of people's like children's relationships in one room, there's always two sides to the story. Right. Like that's important to remember. And we all we all, even as adults, tend to present ourselves in the best light, you know. And I have been humbled by that in that um uh we are the Christian, we're Catholic. And so I have um in speaking with priests before on different things I was struggling with, you know, I could go in really upset with someone or hurt by someone, and I'll start sharing it. And what I want to hear is like, oh, they treated you horrible, they were so wrong, you know, and without a doubt, they always will say, like, you know, well, what was your role in this? Or, you know, what are you? And you're like, no, it's all them. It's all them, you know. And so you do realize that like, even as adults, we tend to like, you know, we have to stop and think, like, what role did I play in this? So with kids, it's yeah, and and there are times that people are egregiously wronged. I don't mean that, but yeah, you know, a lot of times in those little day-to-day squabbles, you know, it could have been we we we probably had a little bit of a role in it, you know, even if it's just our um, you know, misinterpreting their actions or right, right.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

And your kids are gonna come up against that. And so teaching them, I think it's such a valuable skill. And that's the other thing about kind of entering into their drama and sort of owning it, taking them completely at their word without seeking to understand the the whole picture. Um, we're doing them a disservice by not teaching by not teaching them how to work through conflict because they're gonna come up against difficult people for the rest of their lives. So, you know, this was a common theme with my kids when they started going to to public school, um, because we homeschooled, and then they would come home and tell me about this horrible teacher who did horrible things and blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, I'm like, okay, well, let's, you know, let's helicopter up and let's talk about what's going on here and what your role might be and where your sin might be in this, and um just teaching them to think through like that sort of conflict management and give try to give people the benefit of the doubt with appropriate boundaries. Um, there's all sorts of skills that you can teach in that situation without taking on all the drama upon your shoulders. So good, good point. We will get back to Carrie's story in just a few minutes. Right now, it's time for historical homemaker hints. This is the part of the podcast where I highlight some of the helpful and not so helpful hints doled out to homemakers throughout history. Today's hints come from Don'ts for Wives by Blanche Ebbett, published in 1913 by A C Black. This little etiquette book was intended to guide wives into marital harmony with humor, tact, and more than a bit of brutal honesty. Don't worry, Miss Ebbett also had words for the men recorded in her volume Don'ts for Husbands, which I do recommend for all. However, today we will focus on her words to wives, specifically those about household management in chapter 11. I believe you will find these hints funny, insightful, and maybe a little convicting. Chapter 11. Household management. Don't sneer at your mother's old-fashioned ways. They suited your father well enough, and perhaps she can give you points. Don't sneer at your mother-in-law's old-fashioned ways. You may hurt your husband as well as his mother. Don't think anything too much trouble to do for your husband's comfort. Remember, he is occupied all day in working for you. Don't be afraid of thinking and planning and working for him. Don't think your household gods of more importance than your husband's comfort. Don't, for instance, refuse to give him a bedroom fire in cold weather because it makes too much dust. Don't keep the house so tidy that your husband is afraid to leave a newspaper lying about. Few men have such a sense of order as most women have, and they are naturally more careless at home than at the office. But what does it matter when you really come to think of it? Don't quarrel with your husband's relatives. If you can't get on with them, don't ask them to visit you, but persuade your husband to visit them occasionally. As a rule, however, a little tact and patience will carry you over the thin ice. Don't allow outsiders to interfere in your household management. Even mothers should lie low, but don't refuse to listen to good advice from people of experience and act upon it if you can. Don't get angry if your husband says that he never now tastes cake like that his mother used to make. Write and ask her for the recipe. Don't become too stereotyped to try new methods that may be better than the old ones. Don't let the house get stuffy by sitting with closed windows. Keep the air moving and let your husband come home to a healthy atmosphere in more than one sense. Don't forget your poorer neighbors. If every family that had enough to eat kept an eye on even one family that hadn't, there would be much less misery in the country. Don't forget that your husband is your chum and will be delighted to be called upon in an emergency. Your young husband will like to save you by lighting the early morning fire when you are in a hole. Don't have a spring cleaning any oftener than your special nature renders absolutely necessary. Some women have at least four every year. When you do have one, don't upset the whole house at once. Men hate to find a place in disorder. And if you take one room at a time, your husband need know very little about it, except when workmen are required. Don't have your husband's den turned upside down once a week and everything put back into a different place. When the necessary amount of sweeping and dusting has been done, replace everything as nearly as possible in the position in which he left it, even if it is not quite tidy. You can be tidy in your own part of the house to make up for it. Don't be afraid of soiling your hands if it be necessary. There is nothing undignified about housework, and if circumstances make it necessary or advisable for you to do it, do it to the very best of your ability. Besides, it's a good thing to be able to feel that you never expect anything of your servants that you couldn't do for yourself if it were expedient. Don't permit yourself to forget for a single instant that nothing is more annoying to a tired man than the sight of a half-finished laundry work. The remotest hint in your home of a washing day is like a red rag to a bull. Don't be a household martyr. Some wives are never happy unless they are miserable, but their husbands don't appreciate this particular trait. The woeful smile is most exasperating. Well, that's all for today's historical homemaking hints. As always, these hints are for entertainment purposes only, and we leave it up to you, the listener, to determine the safety and soundness of this advice. Now back to Carrie's story. Um, what about on the practical side of the homemaking, chores, stuff like that? Like how do you invite your kids in to participate with you?

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Um, I think, you know, when they were they were younger, it was um much more concrete because it was like, okay, here's your chores that you need to get done. Um, this is, you know, rewards you could earn. I did all the various Pinterest chore charts and all of those things. Um, you know, they'd like to stand next to you and bake in the kitchen and they had their cute little aprons that we, you know, and that we would do those kinds of things as they get older, obviously. Um, you know, I struggle with that a little bit, is that I want to teach them, and I do think this was one of the struggles as a stay-at-home mom, is I want to teach them responsibility and teach them to stand on their own two feet. Um, and then, but then also that feeling that, well, gosh, I I've been home all day. So it's like, you know, so um, but through the grace of God, I feel like both of my children, um, one, have kind of an innate sense of order. Like they're both really um good about like, I'm gonna clean my room. My daughter has a Sunday routine she does, or she'll clean her room, and um, she has a, you know, it's a it's a shared bathroom for anyone that's in the home, but she's the only one that uses it on the regular. So she takes care of that bathroom and she um just kind of keeps things in order. And my son too has always just been pretty tidy. Um, so I I think luckily they've kind of had an innate sense of that. Um my daughter also is just has very interesting food taste. She takes her lunch every day now that she's older and I'll offer to like, oh, I can help you, or she'll get home late from a practice. And she's like, No, I got it. And she's always making new like creations with couscous and with I don't like she's a much more adventurous eater than I am, honestly. So um, you know, I don't know. That's where they the example of I don't feel like maybe I did the best job of being ever being like, okay, once a week you're in charge of the dinner, or but she really naturally has just kind of fallen into that. So I don't, I'm not gonna take credit for it, to be honest, because I think that's an area where maybe I could have expected more from my kids because but because I was home, I just and I like to serve them. Um so yeah, I think um and I do think a lot now too about my son thinking, well, you're you're gonna be some, you know, God willing, or if that's what he calls for you, you're gonna you're gonna be somebody's husband one day.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

And I don't wanna, you know, I don't want to send you into that and like, you know, have this be a point of contention because you don't know how to like pick up after yourself or you know, how to help out around the house. So I have been thinking about that a lot more now that as he's getting older and into high school and whatnot, of um, you know, I know the enemy, I talk a lot about how the enemy likes to keep us busy. We definitely have a full schedule, and that can sometimes be a barrier to focusing on some of those things in the home. But um I'm trying to not live my life in absolutes, where, you know, it's sort of like the eating dinner together as a family. Um, okay, maybe we can't do it seven nights a week because of practicality. Um, you know, our activities have also been a huge blessing in our life. I look at that. My daughter's actually going to college on a volleyball scholarship. So all the hours she's put in has really, it's a passion of hers, you know. And yeah, um, you know, I hope she can she can use that as kind of her ministry. But um it's also like not speak, not thinking in absolutes, like, okay, so maybe if we can sit down together three nights a week, you know, or even if we could just have a bowl of ice cream together, it's I think it's more about the connection than it is the necessarily we have to all be sitting around the table with dinner in front of us and so on.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Yeah. So no, I agree. I agree. You just it's it's part of that being flexible and it's gonna look different in every season. And um, as long as the intention, you're being intentional about making time to um have have unhurried moments. That was another thing that came up in the discussion this morning, which just making space for some unhurried times of fellowship with one another. That's really what's at the heart of the, you know, we're gonna have dinner together every night thing. Um, because that's just not feasible for a lot of people for many different reasons.

SPEAKER_02 43:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Um, so what about priorities? What are some practical steps that you take to set and keep priorities? Because even though you are no longer working outside the home, you do sub occasionally, you've got two children with very busy sports schedules and demanding high school is much more demanding as far as academics. So you're helping them manage their life and you're running the household. So, what are some of the things you do? Are you a list keeper? Are you a planner person?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Um, yeah, I kind of have a routine. Um, I try to keep Mondays if possible, or just I try not to schedule anything on Mondays. I don't make appointments on Mondays. I don't, obviously, that doesn't always work. And then I like to sit down with my coffee and my I have a paper planner, and then we do use like a cozy app that our whole family is on. And I kind of go through the school calendar. I make sure everything in the cozy app so that we're all sharing is updated, that my paper calendar and just kind of look at like the week in advance. So I do that's kind of part of my routine. I think also something that I when I was staying home, especially once my kiddos were both in school, I um it's kind of like, well, I I need to validate my existence. So I am going to be the class mom and I'm gonna be the queen volunteer. And I I think there's always a place for that. But when you go to a Catholic or a parochial school that runs on fundraisers, and I think there's even more of it because our, you know, that's our whole school is supported by sure. That makes sense. Yeah. So I was on every committee and volunteer, and it's just, I mean, it's actually, I think one time my husband's like, Why don't you go back to work? Because you can at least get paid for everything that you're doing. You know, um, so I think I was letting that become so, and probably as a way of I mean, honestly, it it probably became a way of like kind of validating myself, you know, and of course maybe my heart. I mean, while I did enjoy it and I loved being in the classroom with my kids and that chance to get to know all their like friends and classmates so much, you know, it's kind of like some of it I was just doing more out of a sense that like, well, I have the time, so I should. And then I just kind of got burnt out and my attitude and heart wasn't where it should be. Um and to paraphrase, um, there's a gal that I I like, I I follow her on social media. Um her name's Katherine Whitaker, and she had a quote, and I'm gonna um I'm gonna tone it down from what she said, but she had this saying that if it's not a heck yes, it's a heck no. And so I've kind of adopted that. Like if there's not something, now that doesn't mean I'm I've I'm never like fully like, heck yes, let's do laundry. But you know, it's kind of like in how I give my time, and I've just decided I I'm seeing like the the the end game here, or not that I'm gonna stop being a parent, but my daughter's gonna graduate, go off to college. My son's a freshman, and my years is actively raising them or you know, counting down. And so I have really taken a lot of the extras off my plate. Yeah. Um, and because of the busyness of our lives, I've kind of just made it my mission. Like I want to be available when they need me, you know. Um, they still like to have mom, if they get sick, they still like to have mom home here with them. Um, if they want to, if they get home at eight o'clock at and have a story to tell me, I want to be present to listen to that story. Yes. I want so I've really just tried to cut out the, you know, a lot of evening commitments and just a lot of the other things that I was doing and just prioritize that being available on their schedule. Um, not just something I, you know, and I'm fortunate to do that. I know not everyone, you know, yeah, life circumstance um allows for that. Um I say that knowing that also we made a lot of sacrifices over the years and have made it a priority to allow that to happen. Um, it hasn't always been easy. We're kind of uh, you know, we've we've gotten into a little bit of an easier season of that, but you know, early on, especially there was like, you know, funds were pretty tight and it was definitely more of a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

So yeah, absolutely. Um, that's some really good insight and some good ideas there. I keep Mondays open too, just as a reset day to do housework, do laundry, catch up with the laundry.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Um, it's just for me, it feels good to start the week that way and kind of sets me up for a better week. But what you said about I have the time, so I should do fill in the blank. Um, whatever, whether it's a private school that your kids are attending, or if for that matter, a public school, you know, or any situation where there's always a need for volunteers. Um sometimes you're looked at as, well, you stay home, you must have all sorts of time.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Um, but then a lot of times we like you said, we just bring that on ourselves, whether we're trying to validate um our choice to be a full-time homemaker to the world and say, look, I do valuable things besides just stay home and do laundry. Um, or, you know, whatever our reasoning, being really aware that if you don't put some boundaries around your time, other people will absolutely fill it up for you. So that's a good insight there. Thanks for sharing that. Um, okay, we're gonna jump ahead a little bit to um challenges, temptations and challenges. Sometimes this overlaps with the social media questions, so that's why I'm I'm gonna skip that one, but we might talk about it here. Which of these temptations have you struggled with the most and what is God teaching you through it? A comparison to other women, other homemakers, whether you know them in person or you see them online, B, just a homemaker. I'm not getting paid, so this is not a real job. Or C superwoman trying to do all the things.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

Um, I would say C superwoman trying to do all the things. Just my my image of what you know I thought I was supposed to be and supposed to do. And again, um that was of my own creation because it wasn't no one was putting that on me. I was putting it on myself. And um yeah, so I think I I have definitely toned that down, even in just you know, a couple the most recent years. Uh living through a lot of grief while homemaking, um, it kind of takes it down to the like what are the most basic needs? And I think that um you just you see how especially losing both my parents like in an instant, it was very unexpected for both of them. Uh, you see how precious life is and how quickly things can change and um what really matters and you know what are the what are the memories I have, what were the things? And it was more the it really is how I felt with them and about them. And um, it was never, I don't, you know, have these huge memories of these big elaborate things. It was just kind of more to the the the day-to-day. To me, that's like kind of the sacred. Um, I was thinking about this question, and I'm gonna find my quote here because I had to write it down or I won't remember it. But um, one of my favorite in the Catholic Church, you know, we talk a lot about the saints, and one of my favorite saints is Saint Therese. And I mean, I think this was applicable to anyone. Um, and she just was her nickname was the little flower, and she believed, I'm trying to find the quote here. I wrote it down exactly how she said it. Um, in this life, we cannot do great things, we can only do small things with great love. And I think that that, you know, most of us, I'm not going to um, they're probably not gonna ever build a monument to my name. They're not gonna go down in a history book. Yeah, but those little things are what's kind of creating my children's life story. And um another saying I heard is that as mothers, we're building, we're building cathedrals we're never gonna see. Yeah, meaning their future generations, we don't know the impact that what we're doing today is going to have on those future generations. And just um yeah, focusing on that more, how does my home feel versus over, you know, not that I I think it's important that there's a place for beauty and all that too. But just that how do my children feel with me more so than like what am I doing and what Pinterest-worthy activities am I creating? And right, if it's bringing me joy, great. But if it's causing mom to be stressed and to be, you know, short with everyone, and I I say this again with always the disclaimer that I do not do this perfectly. Do I snap at my children? Yes. Do I get, do I have lack of patience? Yes. But that's just, you know, the goal is to just um create them just with that sense of like safety and and a just a warm place to come home to because the world can be a hard place, you know. And I just um I think down having friends with a variety of ages of children, some that are grandparents, I just see some with adult children, and it actually makes me excited because they invested so much into them. Watching their children and the relationship they have now. I just always want my kids to know they can always come home and this will always feel like home and just, you know, hopefully someday some grandchildren and just um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Yes, that's a worthy goal. I love the um the analogy to the cathedral, like you're building cathedrals that no one we're ever will ever see, or that you will never see. Um, it just made me think about uh we got to go to um to France last summer and we went into Notre Dame. They had just opened it back up. Oh wow. It I just I'm still, you know, when I think about it, just it was it left me speechless. It's so beautiful. And we had an excellent guide, and one of the things she pointed out was the size of the rose windows, it's enormo they're enormous. And you know, they're so intricate. There's so much intricate design going on in those stained glass windows, like lots, and they're very, very high up. And she said, when those were made, they were made by artisans who knew that nobody was gonna really see them. Except God. You know, because they were so high up. And at that time, you know, we didn't have helicopters and elevators, and you know, no nobody was gonna see that except God. And yet they put all their skill, all their effort, all their attention and and love into creating these beautiful works of art um for God's pleasure. And I think that's applicable too for this journey of homemaking and motherhood and that work that we do. Um, it's sort of that it's that unseen work that the the Lord sees it though, and he's pleased with it. So I love that. Great analogies. Great analogies. All right, let's you mentioned that hospitality was uh a real gift of your aunt. What was her name? Aunt, I wrote it down.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

Elda, E-L-D-A.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

Aunt Elda. So how about you? You you said you enjoy hosting team dinners and and host and having doing hospitality. So, what are some give me a couple of examples of practical things that you do to show hospitality?

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Um, well, I think um early on, too. I feel like I'm dividing everything into the early years, like you know, and now um I've always loved, you know, to set a pretty table and to so I remember when we were first married, we invited some friends over, and I, you know, I had gotten all the new wedding gifts. So I I got my china out and I had like these fancy glasses, and I just I had the place mats and I just made a really beautiful table, I thought. And and it was really, it did come from a place of just wanting to create something beautiful. So we have the dinner, everything goes well. And another like months later we're talking, and um the the wife that was there said, Oh, you know, I've always been I've been wanting to have you over, but she's like, I was just so intimidated because I just like you just had such a beautiful like meal and dishes and all this. And I thought, oh gosh, like you can invite me over and have paper plates, and I really wouldn't care. But it it did make me realize that hospitality also um like is still needs to be more about the people and making people feel comfortable and welcome. And um, so it's just kind of made me realize that yes, while we can, you know, provide a warm and comfortable home and uh that that's not really like we also it's about making people feel comfortable and just like serving them, but also being present for them because I think when someone comes to your home, you know, they just they also are coming to spend time with you. And so I guess my practical tip would just be um it's to not be afraid to like hospitality does not have to be a there doesn't have to be a theme and a big plan. It can be as simple as uh I think we had a game night a few months ago and invited a couple of families over and I said, um, I'm gonna have taco stuff, like literally meat in a crock pot. I'm gonna throw some shells out, a bag of cheese, a thing of salt, like and it's a fancy. I'm not making a dessert, like it's very low-key, and we're gonna play games. And it was like kids were just coming in and out, grabbing taco stuff. I didn't look at the food once after I sat it out. We played games and it was just like the most lovely night, and we had so much fun, and it was not stressful at all. So um, yeah, I think just bringing like being invited into someone's home is such an honor. And I remember that a lot more as a kid. I feel like now, some of it because of schedules, that it just I guess in our busy life doesn't happen as much. It's more like, hey, let's get together, but it always involves a meeting somewhere. I just think welcoming people into your home is just like it's special. Yeah. And I have never like I do the thing where I'm like, oh, I gotta clean and I need all this. Um, and and there are times where you're like, okay, it's it's a little out of control. I do need to do a little tidy up. Yeah, I have never walked into someone's house and I I'm almost a little like if it's immaculate, I'm like, where do you live? Like, how do you live in the, you know, I don't know. I've never walked into someone's house and been like, oh, there's some fingerprints on the door, or there's shoes by the you know, I don't think that way, so why do I expect a super? So exactly. Yes, that's a very good thing. Keep it simple. I guess that's my my tip is just keep it simple.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Yeah. Okay. Rapid fire questions. Tell me a story if you want, or just give me a quick answer. It's up to you. Biggest homemaking fail.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

I just checked with my husband. I was like, do I tell this story? Because it's like embarrassing and maybe a little like I don't want to read the word gross, but I okay, so when we were first married, I I made pork chops and we had no money. So I I am pretty sure I got them on sale. So I made the pork chops and we're eating them. And I also have a I have a really weak stomach. Like so I I could not be in the medical field because everything, so I'm eating them and they just did not taste right. So much, so much so that I, you know, I I got sick from eating my own cooking. So no. That is still a story that and then my children have learned it. Um, I was like, they had to have been bad or something. I bought them on sale. Like, I've not eaten a pork chop since, just so you know. But um yeah, so they're like, your cooking was so you made yourself sick off your own cooking. I don't know. So that that's just a story that you know popped up.

SPEAKER_00 58:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

That's a good one. That's a good one. Okay, give me a recent homemaking win.

SPEAKER_01 58:59

Um, I guess it's not super recent, but on the other note, to show that I I can cook something. Um I've been blessed with a wonderful mother-in-law who has the gift of hospitality. They live here in town with us and um both my mother-in-law and father-in-law, and they have just hosted everything, you know, Thanksgivings and she always does all the cooking. So honestly, I had never made like a holiday meal. I'd never done, because we always she always hosted. So um, like I said, not super recent, but it was the COVID year, Easter. And um, that would have been, it would have been really early on, where we were still like uh they weren't, they weren't in our bubble yet. You know, we were just still kind of um, I think maybe my father-in-law was even sick. So we stayed home and it was just my family, and I was like, we're still gonna do the whole meal. So I made the ham and I made potatoes and I had a dessert and I had the asparagus, and I was so proud of myself that I put together a whole like holiday meal all by myself. Um, and then just of course, because you know, the all the the COVID, everything that happened during COVID wasn't enough. We also lost power that day. So there was about an hour in the morning while things were cooking. We didn't have power, and I was like, oh my gosh. But luckily it came back on, we got everything cooked, and it was just yeah, just my little family of four. I mean, my daughter was taking guitar lessons. She sat there and played the guitar for us and sang a song. And I was just so proud of this meal that I'd made myself, which sounds silly because you know, like people have been doing that for generations. But silly. I've just always seen a mother-in-law that hosted, and so I never had to do all of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

So yeah, it's it's it's hard to pull off a full um holiday meal with everything coming out on time and especially having lost power during the process. That's good. Good job. Um, okay, how how about a homemaking product or resource that you are loving right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Um very recently I have discovered ChatGPT or chat, did I say that right? Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

And as much as AI and all of that kind of spooks me, yeah, it has as I've kind of used it a little bit more, it has just it's amazing. Um, I've used it, like I said, we moved into a new house in August. I've used it to help me decorate things. Okay. By taking pictures of a room and I can find rugs and couches and things, and it'll put them in the room for me to show me I'm very visual. Um to I can say, make me a menu plan for the week that includes these are what I have on hand. This is what, you know. Um I yeah, just tips and tricks. I feel like I can get on the, you know, Google, you can just get down a rabbit hole and you can take you to all these different links and things. And I've just found it just kind of really narrows everything down. If there's something you need to purchase, it gives you the link to it. So yeah, that would probably be the thing that even six months ago I would have been like, what is this? And now I've um I don't pay for it. So it's like you have limits on how much you can use. But I was like, oh my gosh, should I pay for it? Because I really use it a lot. So yeah. So who would have thought chat GPT was gonna be, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

I know, I know. It's crazy. It's crazy what that can do. Yeah. Um, okay, how about a favorite homemaking hack or tip?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

Um, I think I was trying to think of something really practical, but the thing that just kept coming back to my heart was something then the mundane sometimes of all the like, you know, homemaking tasks, and like we talked about the groundhogs day, um, something I had heard years ago. And I I don't do this real religiously, but I I do it quite often, is I try to take that time to um pray over whoever my task is blessing. So if I'm um, you know, washing dishes, I'll either, you know, give thanks to God, just a little quick prayer in my head that I have a family to feed, or that I have, you know, um, or if I'm doing laundry, I'll pray for that person that I'm folding their clothes, just say a little prayer for them. Or, and that's just kind of made um another way to kind of make your homemaking a way of worship. Now, again, I don't do this every single time, but it's just especially if I'm getting really crabby or like, you know, grown like woe is me about all that I have to do. It just kind of puts my heart in the right place. And absolutely. Um, yeah, and it's just a way to get more prayer in. I think I always used to think of prayer praying as like, okay, I have to have a special time set aside and I have to have this whole routine. And it's like, no, like we should always be in conversation with God. And that's just yeah, just another way to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:38

So yeah, Paul talks about praying in all things in all circumstances, about everything constantly. So, and there's nothing better to adjust your attitude than to pray. I 100% agree. Having a bad attitude, it's probably time to pray. Um, okay, tell me about your signature dish.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

Um, I would say there's probably two different, two different ones. One is an appetizer. Uh, we go to, and I actually got this from my sister-in-law years ago, but um, we go to a lot of gatherings, like potlooks, things like that. And um this is just kind of what I've become known for so much that people ask for the recipe, and I'm like, okay, I'll give it to you, but it's my thing that I'm gonna bring to, you know, everything we go to. So don't steal it. Like this is my dish. Um, it's just a white bean, black, uh, white corn, black bean salsa um that has some onion and some uh Italian dressing and ranch and uh jalapeno in it, and then I eat it with lime, do we eat it with lime chips, is how my kids like it. So that's uh pretty simple, but it's refreshing. And okay. Um, so that's something that I, you know, pretty much what I always make when I'm gonna go to some kind of like a potluck or a gathering. Uh and then we also do a lot of, I seem to seem to be a lot of meal trains where we're, you know, blessing people with meals for, you know, babies or surgeries, or, you know, if there's been a loss. And um, I'm a big fan of the pioneer woman's recipes. I haven't found one I didn't like. And I think she's it, she's realistic, you know, she doesn't, there's no fancy ingredients. But I started making her um roast or her roasted pepper white chicken enchiladas. Okay. And roasting the peppers, which I had never done before. I'd made white chicken and enchiladas, but the doing all the roasted, you do the green and the red and the yellow and roast the peppers beforehand is like makes it's a game changer. It's so flavorful and just everybody loves them. They're a little bit more labor intensive, but that tends to be the meal that I make. Um, yeah, if I'm gonna bring a meal to somebody, Caesar salad and some fruit.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

And awesome. That sounds delicious. Um, maybe I can get the link for that one from you, and then if you would be so kind as to share your salsa recipe.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

With this, yes, definitely. Awesome. It's funny, it's funny because people I wrote it out for I went to a wedding shower, they're like, write out a recipe, and it's one of those. I just it's not really measured. I mean, I know there's a can of this, but when you're putting like the dressings, I was like, I just do like a squirt around of this dressing and a square, you know. So I was like, How much is a squirt? So I was like, roughly one eighth of a cup. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Like it's just kind of the taste a little glug, a little, you know, whatever. Yeah, I have a lot of recipes like that. Um just do the best you can. Okay, let's talk about the art of home. So, how do you see homemaking as an art and where do you find beauty in homemaking?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

Um, I think that, you know, while I said we don't want to focus so much on making things pretty and aesthetic that we forget about the people. I also think God gave us our senses. And um, it's not, you know, he gave us the sense of of smell and of touch and of our vision. And he thinks that those things are good and worthy. And so it really does impact. I mean, I find like the the feeling of my home and my mood and is really impacted by what I see visually. And um, so I think that the beauty, it it doesn't have to be elaborate, but just simple little things like dimming the lights and lighting a candle, or you know, um, the house doesn't smell like bacon grease or um which the pins though.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

Some people like that smell.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

My my family loves the bacon, they do not love the smell, but um so I think that just the beauty of it is that we are creating a haven for our families, like a place of rest, of respite, um, away from the world that is, you know, then preparing them to do whatever God has called them to do for his kingdom. And um I just know even the like when we moved, I mentioned moving, um, and it this all happened, our selling our house and moving was completely unexpected. It happened, it came about when we were actually when my mom passed away last spring unexpectedly. It came about this house came up that a friend, and I I think this was my mama's hand in it because she knew I needed something to look forward to, um, came up. So we were at the same time that we were cleaning out my mom's house, we were getting our house ready to list it. And we had about a three-week window to get our house sold. Praise be to God that the market was really hot at that time and like we sold our house very quickly. But um, there was just a lot of like sorting through and throwing stuff, and I mean it was just it was I don't even hardly remember the summer. Well, I realized the weight that some things, unfinished jobs had been how heavy they had weighed on me. And examples, I had this closet that had been an art closet kind of originally when my kids were younger. Well, you know, this summer they were 14 and 17, they weren't really doing art projects at home anymore. But I just it was just so overwhelming that I just kind of left it. But it just always bugged me. But I was just like, I don't I don't have time for it. It took me two hours to clean up, just two hours. Yeah. And honestly, because I pretty much threw everything away because it was all just, you know, nothing that they were going to use anymore. And um just even though it was behind a closed door, I just I felt so light and happy after and I realized how much just all those unseen tasks and jobs and you know lay on us. So it's just um yeah, I do think that our environment can reflect what's going on inside with us. And so um sometimes you have to put the cart before the horse. And maybe if you're not, you know, you're going through a hard time, grief and all that. Sometimes just taking care of you know your home and creating a beautiful and cozy environment, I think is yeah, can be healing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:58

So yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Okay, what's a word of advice that you would give? I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep you in the seasoned camp, uh, just because of your experience and your age. Um, what is a word of advice that you would give to the younger women who are coming behind you?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

Um, I think just that um mother or like homemaking is about seasons. And um just to remember that that God has you in whatever season you're in, and that um you you really cannot have it all at once. I think I was of the generation that was really we were I was gonna work full-time and have a career. And and it's not that you can't have these things. There's just you can't have it all at once. And and there has to be gives and takes. And um, so I think, you know, if you're in a season of raising littles, which is very physically hands-on and exhausting, yeah, you know, that prop maybe is not the time to start to uh learning a new skill, or you know, just like maybe um I my dad always had a they had the most beautiful yard landscaped, and they had this waterfall and they had these berms with flowers. And I was just always talking about him to do all these things I wanted to do with my yard because I just loved his yard. He's like, kid, you know, we like we didn't have that like when you guys were growing up, we just had a yard. I just had grass in bowed. He goes, This is not the season for this. He's like, What you don't want this right now, like you know, you can you can have that someday, but like maybe when your kids are out of the house. So I think just recognizing the seasons and um also knowing that we're still always learning. I'm 50 years old, I am still learning, and you're in some essence, you're always a new, like a new mother, you're a new because you've never been in that season before. Right. I have I have never been in a season of having a sending a child off to college. Like this is a whole new adventure for me. And so I just like I didn't always feel like I knew what I was doing when I had a newborn, I don't feel like I necessarily know what I'm doing now. But but God has me, you know, and he'll it's that sense of control. It's not all on me, you know. I just have to like give give it to him and and and listen to what he says and just know that um, you know, it's it's it's gonna be okay. And um just be be more concerned about the feeling of your house than the appearance of your house, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

The atmosphere over the you know, the decorations, I guess. Yeah. Um, how does it feel? Yeah, that's good. That's a good word. Well, Carrie, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story of home with me today. I have enjoyed every minute of it. This was been such a fun conversation to hear about your unique experience. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

Well, thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:08

You're welcome. Thank you for listening to this homemaker portrait of Carrie Sullivan. I hope you have been encouraged and inspired with some nugget of wisdom to apply in your own homemaking today. One of my favorite quotes Carrie shared was, As mothers, we are building cathedrals we are never going to see. I think that can certainly apply not just to motherhood, but to homemaking in general. We may look around and see piles of laundry that never seem to end, stacks of dishes that become dirty as quickly as we wash them, and plates that need filling again and again with nourishing foods. But God sees sacrifice, service, love, compassion, selflessness, kindness, generosity, and so many more Christ-like qualities that He is forming in you through this hidden work that you do in the home. You are his masterpiece. He's not just working on your home and family, he's working on you. As you entrust the results of your hidden work of homemaking to him and focus on daily faithfulness, he is building in you a dwelling place fit for his glory. For we are God's masterpiece. So remember, homemaker, while you are building that cathedral, you will never see that God is not only pleased, but he is using that work to build you into a masterpiece of Christ likeness. So let's make this episode emoji a church. There isn't a cathedral emoji, but the church one will do. Drop that into a comment on Spotify, in a text or an email, and let us know how this cathedral perspective shifts your mindset towards the work of the home and the work God is doing in you. If you have found value in this episode, please share with the homemaker you know. Leave us a rating and a review on your listening app. And if you would like to say thanks with your dollars, leave a tip over at buymeacoffee.com/slash theartofome. That's all for this episode. I will be back on Monday with more spring cleaning motivation and next Wednesday with my spring ramble with Jessica Fisher. Until then, keep practicing your art of making a coffee.